Fanart in Artist Alley

[Suiken]

I have been talking to people about this subject through private e-mail for some time and now I think it is time to make an official post about it.

There is a Mindbridge meeting tomorrow where this topic will receive its final review and clarification. But for now these are the rules, as I understand it, for this year's Artist Alley:
No fanart is to be sold in Artist Alley. Fanart may be displayed but not sold. Parody art may be sold and displayed freely. If a copyright infringement does occur and the artist, or the company that owns the rights to the licenced character/s, decides to sue it is not the responsibility of AnimeIowa or Mindbridge. Because the Artist Alley is a private agreement between artist and customer AnimeIowa does not profit from the sale of any materials sold in Artist Alley. This decision is to protect the rights of the original creators of the characters and to protect the artists in Artist Alley. However, if someone reports a potential copyright violation to the AI staff the artist in question will be encouraged to not sell the material.

That is everything I know so far. Remember that I do not make these rules I am merely the messenger. I know how much this has upset those of who are in this year's AA especially getting this information so close to the con when you have already registered. I really hope that this doesn't dissuade any of you from returning to Artist Alley again next year. Especially since I really enjoy seeing all of you and buying your talented creations.

I'll let everyone know what the decision is from the Mindbridge meeting as soon as I get it.

[kiki-chan78]

So, if they start not allowing fan-art in the artist alley, what's next? Will they not allow people to cosplay because they are dressing up as copyrighted characters?

Not allowing fan-art is pretty much shooting the artist alley in the proverbial foot. The vast majority of people that go into that area are looking for FAN-ART, not art of original characters, and if they are looking for original characters, it'll probably be to commission the artist. This will directly affect who will bother registering for next year. I know that I'm already planning on not bothering with your convention with such weird rules being put into place, much less so close to the convention time, since it feels like a bait and switch.

I can understand regulating things like porn and what not... but this is getting ridiculous.

Unless they are deliberately trying to sabotage artist alley to allocate that specific space for something else next year?

-Kiki-chan78.

[P-chan]

Calm down. Let's keep this in perspective. Yes, it would be detrimental to not have fan art in the artist alley. But let's not get a "slippery slope" mentality here--other areas of the convention are not at risk of similar rulings. The key differentiator here is the making of profit. With fan art, an artist is making a profit by using the intellectual property of others. With areas areas, such as cosplay or AMVs (two areas that have been mentioned in these threads), no transaction is taking place. The cosplayer or the AMV editor is doing it for the pleasure and to display their works--they are not making a profit from them. For the same reason, as has been said multiple times, displaying of fan art is allowed. The reason? No transaction is taking place, and therefore, no profit.

While I completely understand reactions to the rules and how they were communicated, let's please try to keep it in perspective and not create a panic by transposing these rules to other areas where they do not apply.

[Samurai_Himura]

Settle down, psycho...

Artists in the Alley should focus on their own work anyway.  I think it's sad when a person has to ONLY rely on other people's works and ideas to be an "artist".  I respect artists who do their own work so much more then only "Fan"artists.  If a fan artist does original work too, more power to them!

I think AA is suffer greatly, and so will many "artists", but I respect the decisions of Mindframe and others to do what they are doing.  They have a right to protect their works.  I would hate if my works were "stolen" by other people.  I only sympathize with those who's art is stolen.

If it was legal to sell it I would.  But still.  I'm behind the decision, no matter how "crippling" it is.

[kiki-chan78]

If I come off harsher than I normally would, it isn't intentional. But a lot of stress has entered my life, and I will be tied up with said stress factors for the next two weeks, leaving me with little to no time and even less energy to revamp an entire portfolio for one convention. Besides, hospitals are not the most inspirational of places.

Decisions as impacting as the one they are making, should be made early in the season/year, or implemented for the next convention since they were made so late, as to give the people the time to properly prepare. They should also be posted on the main page of the website, and not ferreted out through the forums the way this seems to be trickling out to the artists. There are also conflicting bits of information floating around. The lack of proper communication feels very unprofessional.

As of June 3, on the official website, the rules from last year are still posted. Here's a ball, I think someone dropped it.

<3

-Kiki-chan78.

[bratkitty]

Well I can't blame kiki for being frustrated about how late this is coming about and the communication. It makes me glad we decided to wait until next year to go to AA when this is all sorted out.

I personally am behind the no fanart policy. It makes it more about the art than just drawing popular characters. And I have seen artists who make original works do well. I've had original work do well in the past as well.  It's all about taking the time to produce good art. If you make things that are awesome and people like, you don't have to rely on fanart to be successful.

[thatreevesgirl]

Suiken, did you guys ever find out the final ruling on fanart in the artist's alley from Mindbridge?  I have been dying to know.

[ThatGuy]

So, if they start not allowing fan-art in the artist alley, what's next? Will they not allow people to cosplay because they are dressing up as copyrighted characters?
-Kiki-chan78.

Because you sell cosplayers, right? People make no money from cosplaying at the con. Thus no problem. Just like how they said you can display fanart all you want. No sales, no copyright infringement.

[kiki-chan78]

So, if they start not allowing fan-art in the artist alley, what's next? Will they not allow people to cosplay because they are dressing up as copyrighted characters?
-Kiki-chan78.

Because you sell cosplayers, right? People make no money from cosplaying at the con. Thus no problem. Just like how they said you can display fanart all you want. No sales, no copyright infringement.

You're right, no one but the people I hire to sew the costumes of copyrighted characters make money from me cosplaying at the con. We have already established that making money from the illegal use of character images is a bad thing. Therefore when I cosplay it is a bad thing. *puts symbolic logic book away* Philosophy classes really are a lot of fun to apply in real-life settings. ^.~

What I am being most annoyed over is the lateness that all of this arose. Everyone that I have informed of the situation has had the same  'WTF' reaction. While I don't agree with the proposed decision, there should have been warning, and by this date, the implementation should be for the next years convention to give the artists time to tailor their portfolios for the convention. If you look at the website, there is absolutely no indication about this at all. The rules and regulations for last year is still up.

Last years regulations are the only 'concrete' rules that everyone has any real access to, and a lot of stomping around and speculations are flying around in the forums... this is said, that is said, it's good, it's bad... The entire situation just leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and I still call it a bait and switch.

Since I really do have other things to do (like preparing an large house for a dialysis patient, training to connect up said patient, re-organizing entire rooms, ripping out carpets, chasing after pets and what not...) I don't think that I'll bother with this anymore for the time being.

<3

-Kiki-chan78.

[Pretty_Little_Me]

So, if they start not allowing fan-art in the artist alley, what's next? Will they not allow people to cosplay because they are dressing up as copyrighted characters?
-Kiki-chan78.

Because you sell cosplayers, right? People make no money from cosplaying at the con. Thus no problem. Just like how they said you can display fanart all you want. No sales, no copyright infringement.

You're right, no one but the people I hire to sew the costumes of copyrighted characters make money from me cosplaying at the con. We have already established that making money from the illegal use of character images is a bad thing. Therefore when I cosplay it is a bad thing. *puts symbolic logic book away* Philosophy classes really are a lot of fun to apply in real-life settings. ^.~

   Besides the fact that most people who commission costumes only charge for the labor and materials and are not out to make a profit, the main thing is, the sale of the costume is not ocurring at the con. Your logic does not hold.
Which brings me to another point: what if a person has commissioned a fanart-related work at a previous con and was planning to pick it up at AI? Can this kind of sale be "grandfathered in" since the commission took place before the rule was made? Or would the transaction have to take place somewhere private? In a dark corridor or something, like a drug deal?
Not trying to be snotty, really. I just want to clarify.

[ThatGuy]

So, if they start not allowing fan-art in the artist alley, what's next? Will they not allow people to cosplay because they are dressing up as copyrighted characters?
-Kiki-chan78.

Because you sell cosplayers, right? People make no money from cosplaying at the con. Thus no problem. Just like how they said you can display fanart all you want. No sales, no copyright infringement.

You're right, no one but the people I hire to sew the costumes of copyrighted characters make money from me cosplaying at the con. We have already established that making money from the illegal use of character images is a bad thing. Therefore when I cosplay it is a bad thing. *puts symbolic logic book away* Philosophy classes really are a lot of fun to apply in real-life settings. ^.~
-Kiki-chan78.

Well that's you. Plenty of people make their own costumes so they aren't doing anything wrong. Plus the commission and creation of the costume happens outside the con, so AI would have no jurisdiction over it, just as they said they will allow you to accept a fanart commission at the con since the work would be done outside the con. Just like how they will let you bring your fanart you've made and display it as long as you aren't selling it. Or is displaying the fanart you aren't selling and walking around in a costume you aren't selling fundamentally different? I recommend re-reading Chapter 1 of that logic book, entitled "Common Sense".

[kiki-chan78]

So, if they start not allowing fan-art in the artist alley, what's next? Will they not allow people to cosplay because they are dressing up as copyrighted characters?
-Kiki-chan78.

Because you sell cosplayers, right? People make no money from cosplaying at the con. Thus no problem. Just like how they said you can display fanart all you want. No sales, no copyright infringement.

You're right, no one but the people I hire to sew the costumes of copyrighted characters make money from me cosplaying at the con. We have already established that making money from the illegal use of character images is a bad thing. Therefore when I cosplay it is a bad thing. *puts symbolic logic book away* Philosophy classes really are a lot of fun to apply in real-life settings. ^.~
-Kiki-chan78.

Well that's you. Plenty of people make their own costumes so they aren't doing anything wrong. Plus the commission and creation of the costume happens outside the con, so AI would have no jurisdiction over it, just as they said they will allow you to accept a fanart commission at the con since the work would be done outside the con. Just like how they will let you bring your fanart you've made and display it as long as you aren't selling it. Or is displaying the fanart you aren't selling and walking around in a costume you aren't selling fundamentally different? I recommend re-reading Chapter 1 of that logic book, entitled "Common Sense".

Chapter one amusingly enough is titled 'Introduction'. It deals with (1) Arguments, (2) 'And', 'Or,' and 'Not', (3) '&', 'v' and '~', (4) Material Conditionals and Biconditionals, and (5) Scope of Our Inquiry. Hmmm, or would you be thinking of the Preface of the book? I really hope not, since then I would really be wondering why you are requesting that I read something about how the book was designed for both instructor and student or how certain letters cannot be used as bound variables.

Now I would like to thank everyone for jumping down my throat about the flippant costumes comments, because everyone loves to be called names and be made fun of as though they are back in grade-school. Really, thanks guys, much appreciated.

The stuff that seems to be overlooked, and the real topic here?

Fact:
1- Last year's rules and regulations are still on the website for the artist alley.
2- THIS year's registration form is on the website.
3- There is no mention anywhere on the website of the changes in rules and regulations.
4- The notification of such changes are primarily through a forum where not everyone checks.
5- These changes are being implemented after several people have registered for their tables.

This is the last I have to say on this topic at all. Have fun y'all! ^___^

<3

-Kiki-chan78.

[ThatGuy]

So, if they start not allowing fan-art in the artist alley, what's next? Will they not allow people to cosplay because they are dressing up as copyrighted characters?
-Kiki-chan78.

Because you sell cosplayers, right? People make no money from cosplaying at the con. Thus no problem. Just like how they said you can display fanart all you want. No sales, no copyright infringement.

You're right, no one but the people I hire to sew the costumes of copyrighted characters make money from me cosplaying at the con. We have already established that making money from the illegal use of character images is a bad thing. Therefore when I cosplay it is a bad thing. *puts symbolic logic book away* Philosophy classes really are a lot of fun to apply in real-life settings. ^.~
-Kiki-chan78.

Well that's you. Plenty of people make their own costumes so they aren't doing anything wrong. Plus the commission and creation of the costume happens outside the con, so AI would have no jurisdiction over it, just as they said they will allow you to accept a fanart commission at the con since the work would be done outside the con. Just like how they will let you bring your fanart you've made and display it as long as you aren't selling it. Or is displaying the fanart you aren't selling and walking around in a costume you aren't selling fundamentally different? I recommend re-reading Chapter 1 of that logic book, entitled "Common Sense".

The stuff that seems to be overlooked, and the real topic here?

Fact:
1- Last year's rules and regulations are still on the website for the artist alley.
2- THIS year's registration form is on the website.
3- There is no mention anywhere on the website of the changes in rules and regulations.
4- The notification of such changes are primarily through a forum where not everyone checks.
5- These changes are being implemented after several people have registered for their tables.

This is the last I have to say on this topic at all. Have fun y'all! ^___^

<3

-Kiki-chan78.

Now that is a valid point. They most certainly should have updated the website before allowing registrations. I won't argue that one bit. Just the "cosplayer justification" seemed bit flawed to me. But yes overall whoever runs the website needs to stay on top of it a little more instead of announcing everything through the forum.

[Suiken]

Suiken, did you guys ever find out the final ruling on fanart in the artist's alley from Mindbridge?  I have been dying to know.

I haven't as of yet. But I hope to have some info soon. I believe the 4th weekend is causing the delay.

And as for the arguements on here I will start deleting posts if it turns nasty.

[KORfan]

Suiken, did you guys ever find out the final ruling on fanart in the artist's alley from Mindbridge?  I have been dying to know.

I haven't as of yet. But I hope to have some info soon. I believe the 4th weekend is causing the delay.

Yes, we're waiting for someone to update a web page so you get one answer.